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Post by Rodneck on Dec 9, 2017 15:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by eric on Dec 11, 2017 0:10:03 GMT -5
The thought crossed my mind about Stanton too. But then reality hit back and a quarter of a billion dollar player who may soon be a half a billion dollar player in two years may not be what this young team needs. Last time we checked a fancy shit load paying team just lost a game 7.
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Post by claycc on Dec 11, 2017 15:31:33 GMT -5
I never even considered Stanton. Sure, his bat would be sexy behind Votto. Think about the pitches that Votto would actually get to see in that case! But wasn't going to happen.
This team doesn't have a shortage of power. Another scary bat not named Votto would be a very nice addition. But there is plenty of pop all over. Some upgrades here and there would be nice. We do have a few players who are rather one dimensional. They've been performing well at what they do though, be it rather limited.
Improved pitching is the key right now. Stability in the rotation is an absolute necessity. That will help stabilize the bullpen as well. Improved pitching will turn this team into one contending for a playoff spot. It still won't be good enough, without offensive upgrades, but it will be getting fun again.
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Post by Rodneck on Dec 11, 2017 16:35:55 GMT -5
I never even considered Stanton. Sure, his bat would be sexy behind Votto. Think about the pitches that Votto would actually get to see in that case! But wasn't going to happen. This team doesn't have a shortage of power. Another scary bat not named Votto would be a very nice addition. But there is plenty of pop all over. Some upgrades here and there would be nice. We do have a few players who are rather one dimensional. They've been performing well at what they do though, be it rather limited. Improved pitching is the key right now. Stability in the rotation is an absolute necessity. That will help stabilize the bullpen as well. Improved pitching will turn this team into one contending for a playoff spot. It still won't be good enough, without offensive upgrades, but it will be getting fun again. I don't think Stanton would have wanted to come here but as me being GM I would have acquired him. The prospect cost was negligible. Then bought a pitcher also. At the break if we still sucked I'd flip em both! That's the GM'ing aggression I'd like to see! |
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Post by claycc on Dec 11, 2017 17:48:40 GMT -5
I don't think Stanton would have wanted to come here but as me being GM I would have acquired him. The prospect cost was negligible. Then bought a pitcher also. At the break if we still sucked I'd flip em both! That's the GM'ing aggression I'd like to see! He wouldn't, of course. And who could blame him with this organization. When JR came over, both him and Larkin were willing to defer money if the organization would just go out and get the pitching for a winner. They wouldn't do it then. Sure, different owners now... but still the same mindset and approach. But getting a bat like Stanton's was never going to be as cheap as it was for him and the Yankees. They could have at least made an offer... sure, he would have blocked it. But we probably would have heard that they at least kicked the tires anyhow. And might have drove up the price a little bit for the Yankees in the process... who effectively paid nothing. Another downside is that it probably assures that there is no way in hell we could work a deal with the Marlins for Yellich... who is probably a better fit for us in the rebuild. Or who knows? Maybe its the time to go for that deal. The Marlins have clearly punted putting up any kind of illusion of being competitive. Of course, inappropriately, Yellich would end up being more expensive than Stanton. And right now, comparing the two at this stage in their careers, that's a damn shame. Anyhow, might as well kick the tires on Yellich. The Marlins don't need him... not at this time anyhow. And they won't need him for awhile either, or they would have demanded more for Stanton, even if it meant eating more of his salary. |
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Post by Rodneck on Dec 11, 2017 23:26:58 GMT -5
I don't think Stanton would have wanted to come here but as me being GM I would have acquired him. The prospect cost was negligible. Then bought a pitcher also. At the break if we still sucked I'd flip em both! That's the GM'ing aggression I'd like to see! He wouldn't, of course. And who could blame him with this organization. When JR came over, both him and Larkin were willing to defer money if the organization would just go out and get the pitching for a winner. They wouldn't do it then. Sure, different owners now... but still the same mindset and approach. But getting a bat like Stanton's was never going to be as cheap as it was for him and the Yankees. They could have at least made an offer... sure, he would have blocked it. But we probably would have heard that they at least kicked the tires anyhow. And might have drove up the price a little bit for the Yankees in the process... who effectively paid nothing. Another downside is that it probably assures that there is no way in hell we could work a deal with the Marlins for Yellich... who is probably a better fit for us in the rebuild. Or who knows? Maybe its the time to go for that deal. The Marlins have clearly punted putting up any kind of illusion of being competitive. Of course, inappropriately, Yellich would end up being more expensive than Stanton. And right now, comparing the two at this stage in their careers, that's a damn shame. Anyhow, might as well kick the tires on Yellich. The Marlins don't need him... not at this time anyhow. And they won't need him for awhile either, or they would have demanded more for Stanton, even if it meant eating more of his salary. Good stuff Clay. I've had the Yelich desire also. |
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Post by Rodneck on Dec 11, 2017 23:27:40 GMT -5
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Post by socalredsfan on Dec 12, 2017 14:13:20 GMT -5
He wouldn't, of course. And who could blame him with this organization. When JR came over, both him and Larkin were willing to defer money if the organization would just go out and get the pitching for a winner. They wouldn't do it then. Sure, different owners now... but still the same mindset and approach. But getting a bat like Stanton's was never going to be as cheap as it was for him and the Yankees. They could have at least made an offer... sure, he would have blocked it. But we probably would have heard that they at least kicked the tires anyhow. And might have drove up the price a little bit for the Yankees in the process... who effectively paid nothing. Another downside is that it probably assures that there is no way in hell we could work a deal with the Marlins for Yellich... who is probably a better fit for us in the rebuild. Or who knows? Maybe its the time to go for that deal. The Marlins have clearly punted putting up any kind of illusion of being competitive. Of course, inappropriately, Yellich would end up being more expensive than Stanton. And right now, comparing the two at this stage in their careers, that's a damn shame. Anyhow, might as well kick the tires on Yellich. The Marlins don't need him... not at this time anyhow. And they won't need him for awhile either, or they would have demanded more for Stanton, even if it meant eating more of his salary. Good stuff Clay. I've had the Yelich desire also. I'm not sure it's as hard to get Yellich as what seems to be implied. The Marlins have a TON of payroll to shed still, before they get down to the $80-$90 mil payroll range. Their biggest issue is dumping payroll. We could get Yellich without giving up a ton in prospects by also taking one of the other contracts off their hands as well. Heck, we need bullpen help, so we offer to take the Ziegler contract too. This team should be willing to give up more money right now to get a guy like Yellich, than to give up top prospects. Let's just think about this for a moment. Trading for Yellich and Ziegler would be putting out about $17 mil in payroll next season for the two combined (I believe Ziegler has just one year left on his contract). Deal Hamilton and Duvall and that's about 1/3 of the $17 mil right there. Consider that both Ziegler and Mesoraco would be off the books after this season too. The one big signing for me then, would be Cozart. I'd offer him 3/$35 mil. I think you could deal Hamilton, one of the young pitching prospects, and a medium offensive prospect and get this done, since we'd be eating the Ziegler contract. Heck, take Volquez ($13 mil) back instead of Ziegler, and that may lessen the prospet blow to enable us to not have to give one of the top talented pitching prospects. Who here would scoff at this lineup: Yellich Cozart Votto Suarez Schebler Winker Senzel Barnhart/Mes What an extremely young and talented team this group would be. Only older guys are Votto and Cozart, with Bailey on the pitching side (Ziegler too, if he sticks). Frankly, that lineup could be switched up half a dozen different ways, and still be outstanding. My premise is that I don't believe that the Reds need any new starting pitching. The last two months of the season gave me the impression that this team has serious talent in the rotation. Add in DeSclafani too, and it should be very good. Bullpen should be very solid too, especially if we get better starts early from our rotation, which I think we will. Maybe I'm just a typical fan, but I see this team with Cozart brought back, Yellich, Senzel, and Winker added, as a serious offensive juggernaut. Pitching of course would have to hold up, which I think it can. |
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Post by Rodneck on Dec 12, 2017 14:52:20 GMT -5
Good stuff Clay. I've had the Yelich desire also. I'm not sure it's as hard to get Yellich as what seems to be implied. The Marlins have a TON of payroll to shed still, before they get down to the $80-$90 mil payroll range. Their biggest issue is dumping payroll. We could get Yellich without giving up a ton in prospects by also taking one of the other contracts off their hands as well. Heck, we need bullpen help, so we offer to take the Ziegler contract too. This team should be willing to give up more money right now to get a guy like Yellich, than to give up top prospects. Let's just think about this for a moment. Trading for Yellich and Ziegler would be putting out about $17 mil in payroll next season for the two combined (I believe Ziegler has just one year left on his contract). Deal Hamilton and Duvall and that's about 1/3 of the $17 mil right there. Consider that both Ziegler and Mesoraco would be off the books after this season too. The one big signing for me then, would be Cozart. I'd offer him 3/$35 mil. I think you could deal Hamilton, one of the young pitching prospects, and a medium offensive prospect and get this done, since we'd be eating the Ziegler contract. Heck, take Volquez ($13 mil) back instead of Ziegler, and that may lessen the prospet blow to enable us to not have to give one of the top talented pitching prospects. Who here would scoff at this lineup: Yellich Cozart Votto Suarez Schebler Winker Senzel Barnhart/Mes What an extremely young and talented team this group would be. Only older guys are Votto and Cozart, with Bailey on the pitching side (Ziegler too, if he sticks). Frankly, that lineup could be switched up half a dozen different ways, and still be outstanding. My premise is that I don't believe that the Reds need any new starting pitching. The last two months of the season gave me the impression that this team has serious talent in the rotation. Add in DeSclafani too, and it should be very good. Bullpen should be very solid too, especially if we get better starts early from our rotation, which I think we will. Maybe I'm just a typical fan, but I see this team with Cozart brought back, Yellich, Senzel, and Winker added, as a serious offensive juggernaut. Pitching of course would have to hold up, which I think it can. Hell yes Chris. I could go for all of that bro!!! |
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Post by socalredsfan on Dec 12, 2017 16:02:45 GMT -5
After that's done, call out to San Diego, and work a deal moving Duvall and another prospect(s) for Brad Hand. All the sudden our bullpen looks outstanding, with two unbelievable lefties in it.
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Post by redsfan4life on Dec 12, 2017 17:01:26 GMT -5
I think the Yelich stuff got started by that Mancuso guy at redlegnation. I would love Yelich or Osuna from Marlins either one. I would probably pefer Yelich as I think without looking it up Yelich is younger?
I agree with Chris. It seems most experts are putting down our starting pitching. They must have not looked at AUG and Sept numbers.
I was calling for Stephenson to start from day 1 last year. Price and the front office jerked that kid around stuck him in the pen waited 10 days betwen outings and expected a kid who has trouble throwing strikes to throw strikes after setting around 10 days. Of course he bombed out of the pen then got sent down.
I may be alone but I like what I see from Stephenson in the rotation. Sure he struggles at times with control but if they stick him in rotation and leave him alone I think he could be a really good Number 3 type starter with upside to be even better.
I would be ok with getting a young cost controlled pitcher but IMO it is not a major need. I would upgrade pen first and like Chris said Brad Hand would be a excellecent get for the club.
As for Hamilton he probable needs traded if for no other reason but Price proff the lineup. If we had a manager who valued OBP at the top and wouldn't hit Hamitlon leadoff we would be ok with him hitting 8th and setting out against LHP.
I believe it would be best for Duvall to go to the A.L. and be a DH for 100 games or so a season play 50 in LF. Duvall is solid in LF with the glove but I think it would help his career being DH more because being a diebetic. He has really slumped in the 2nd half now for past 2 years.
It would be a blow though losing him and not getting a RHB back in a deal. We would be LHB heavy in the lineup. Duvall balances out lineup nicely.
As for Cozart I thank him for his play and let him go. Far too risky to sign him because of health and age IMO.
I go to Arizona and try to get Marte. or maybe to Philly for Galvis.
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Post by socalredsfan on Dec 12, 2017 17:44:04 GMT -5
I think the Yelich stuff got started by that Mancuso guy at redlegnation. I would love Yelich or Osuna from Marlins either one. I would probably pefer Yelich as I think without looking it up Yelich is younger? I agree with Chris. It seems most experts are putting down our starting pitching. They must have not looked at AUG and Sept numbers. I was calling for Stephenson to start from day 1 last year. Price and the front office jerked that kid around stuck him in the pen waited 10 days betwen outings and expected a kid who has trouble throwing strikes to throw strikes after setting around 10 days. Of course he bombed out of the pen then got sent down. I may be alone but I like what I see from Stephenson in the rotation. Sure he struggles at times with control but if they stick him in rotation and leave him alone I think he could be a really good Number 3 type starter with upside to be even better. I would be ok with getting a young cost controlled pitcher but IMO it is not a major need. I would upgrade pen first and like Chris said Brad Hand would be a excellecent get for the club. As for Hamilton he probable needs traded if for no other reason but Price proff the lineup. If we had a manager who valued OBP at the top and wouldn't hit Hamitlon leadoff we would be ok with him hitting 8th and setting out against LHP. I believe it would be best for Duvall to go to the A.L. and be a DH for 100 games or so a season play 50 in LF. Duvall is solid in LF with the glove but I think it would help his career being DH more because being a diebetic. He has really slumped in the 2nd half now for past 2 years. It would be a blow though losing him and not getting a RHB back in a deal. We would be LHB heavy in the lineup. Duvall balances out lineup nicely. As for Cozart I thank him for his play and let him go. Far too risky to sign him because of health and age IMO. I go to Arizona and try to get Marte. or maybe to Philly for Galvis. Brian, yours, and many others' concern about Cozart is valid. The problem though, is that the alternative is to do something like you suggested, getting Marte, or someone like that. My feelings are, that a guy like Marte and similar options are just as risky, in that they will cost legitimate prospects, and there is no guarantee that a Marte or someone similar will put up all that great of numbers. In other words, in the end, your suggested option is also just as risky, when considering risk/reward factors. Keep in mind, even with the games that Cozart missed, his WAR was among the best in all of baseball last season. This didn't come out of left field. Cozart showed signs of that level of play in 2016, and has completely changed his approach at the plate, making him, like Votto, a guy who sees among the most pitches per AB, and swings at the most strikes. That isn't a fluke; that's a legitimate change in mindset and approach, and it's all because of Votto. Remember, Cozart just put up one of the best Red's seasons ever by a SS. Not something to just pass on, in my opinion. 3 years, at the least probably gives us two legitimate years, and maybe a bust on year three. I truly think it's a big missed opportunity to not at least try and get a deal for 3 years at around $35K. Don't forget the intangibles also. There's a reason he's called "Coach". He and Votto are the only offensive veterans on the club. |
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Post by brad on Dec 13, 2017 0:29:19 GMT -5
Looks like the Cardinals are the current favorite to land Ozuna, who has 2 years of control left. They are apparently willing to trade "multiple" controllable OFs to complete the trade. Also looking at options to expand the trade to include Yelich and/or Ziegler.
There's been at least 10 teams to acquire about Yelich with St.Louis, Atlanta, & Arizona being the only known teams. Yelich is owed $44.5M thru 2022. The Marlins are open to trading him, but are also strongly considering keeping him.
Reds and Giants discussing Hamilton, but talks have seemed to stall out some.
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Post by claycc on Dec 13, 2017 0:46:28 GMT -5
Looks like the Cardinals are the current favorite to land Ozuna, who has 2 years of control left. They are apparently willing to trade "multiple" controllable OFs to complete the trade. Also looking at options to expand the trade to include Yelich and/or Ziegler. There's been at least 10 teams to acquire about Yelich with St.Louis, Atlanta, & Arizona being the only known teams. Yelich is owed $44.5M thru 2022. The Marlins are open to trading him, but are also strongly considering keeping him. Reds and Giants discussing Hamilton, but talks have seemed to stall out some. I knew it. All of those guys in Miami are going to bring more value to the Marlins than Stanton did. Damn shame. Each offer is going to drive the price up a bit more. Seems like I read that the Giants have nothing to deal with for Hamilton. So, I don't think I want to be anywhere near a deal like that. But if they don't have something that we can actually use... eh. Not to just open a spot in the outfield, because we probably have another potential deal for that. Which brings me to Duvall... the A's are supposed to be kicking the tires on acquiring him from us. Is there anything there interesting to get? Or more of nothing? haha |
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Post by Rodneck on Dec 13, 2017 14:12:29 GMT -5
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