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Post by Rodneck on Jun 20, 2017 8:35:40 GMT -5
With this latest losing streak it really settled in for me that we have a longer ways to go. There was a shining glimmer of hope that evaporated within the reality of the trickle down effect of having the worst rotation in baseball and also in Reds history.
So I am ready to get on with it. It's unfortunate Cozart is on the DL. I would have just not played him than make this official. He needs to be traded. Also with the advent of Jimmy Herget reaching AAA and him being the legitimate closer of the future it's time to also trade Raisel Iglesias. The returns for relievers recently have been absurd. Beyond that I wouldn't do a lot. Davis proposed trading Hamilton but what would you really get for him? Trading away ice cold players is nice in theory but not in real life.
Washington is rumored to be in need of a closer. What could we pilfer out of them?
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Post by Rodneck on Jun 20, 2017 8:40:56 GMT -5
Looking at a trade article arms that would qualify for trade would obviously be Storen. I'd do that. But I would keep Feldman. Somebody needs to eat innings and none of the kids look ready to do it. Arroyo will probably retire and Bailey could run into issues so I would rather Feldman absorb innings as opposed to what we saw last year when the kids were getting shelled religiously.
Anyway seeing some more movement and new faces would definitely peak my interest. Along with some pitching health. It could be very interesting indeed.
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Post by brad on Jun 20, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -5
Cozart would be a prime candidate to move, but the issue may be finding someone among the contenders who need a SS. It might take a major injury to open the market for him.
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Post by redsfan4life on Jun 20, 2017 12:07:40 GMT -5
JJ Hardy just went down for Baltimore. They are in the wild card race still. Cozart is worlds better player than Hardy but Baltimore system seems bare to me.
I would try to get something for Hamilton we can't ever have a great offence with both Hamilton and Peraza in the same lineup. When the idiot manager insists on leading one of the two off at all times.
I would hold onto Feldman till Aug 1 that's the deadline this year. I would trade Iglesias for a good haul but only for a good haul and Dusty would convince the GM that he must have a closer. He would also like t have Billy and his 290 OBP so he could lead him off. Fast guys must leadoff in Price and Dusty's world makes no difference if they can get on base or not.
They need to give Stephenson and Reed extended looks. Like 10 straight turns or more in the rotation. I have been saying this all year. They may turn it around doutful but there is always a chance. Wins and loses mean nothing this year they never have. Sink or swim with the kids you have to see once and for all if any of them is part of the future. It was always pointless to be pitching Arroyo.
My hope is by June 2018 we are running out this team.
Winker lf
Votto 1b
Suarez ss
Schebler cf
Duvall rf
Senzel 3b
Catcher spot
Scooter/Peraza/Herrera. I wouldn't be surprised to see Scooter traded or resigned neither would shock me.
Winker and Votto 1 and 2 could be like Choo and Votto all over again. Schebler may lead the league in RBI'S and The Brennamens could slob all over that stat. They way they did Phillips.
I don't care if Winker plays a COF spot and has zero power. He hits and he gets on base. Perfect leadoff man if we had a new age thinking manager who actually knew how to make out a batting order. This team don't need power from Winker. In my secereno he would be replacing Hamilton. I know he would hit triple the homers that Hamilton would hit.
Id like to see a staff of. something like this. We are way over due some good luck on health front.
In no certain order
Lorenzen
Baily
Disco
Finnegan
The winner in the battle between Castilla Mahle Reed Garrett Stephenson
If we deal Iglesias and put Lorenzen in the rotation then go out and sign a reliever. But not just any reliever one with good perpetual numbers. Not there era from last year. Look deep into the numbers. We need a GM and a owner who isn't looking at Batting average Rbi's Era and pitchers wins. We need a front office that thinks like its 2017 not 1977. We need a manager who thinks like this as well.
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Post by redsfan4life on Jun 20, 2017 12:12:47 GMT -5
They need to make a decision on Storen. Do they wanna resign him or deal him. He has been serviceable nothing more nothing less. Guys like him can be found on the cheap. I would deal him.
The only certain in my bullpen in 2018 would be Peralta. Hard throwing Leftys don't grow on trees.
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Post by redsfan4life on Jun 20, 2017 12:41:12 GMT -5
I wanna add something else to first post. I am still up in the air on Cozart. He is getting along in age and is hurt alot. But do we really have a replacment for him? Peraza is young and could become a decent player but from what we have saw I am not convinced. He will never be a good player till he stps swinging at every pitch. I think he would be a really solid hitter if he would swing at strikes and less junk. Cozart has convinced me that he has become a good hitter. I don't believe he is a 400 obp guy or a 300 hitter. But he has improved his OBP greatly. Still I lean towards trading. Only way I sign him would be 2 year deal and I highly doubt he would sign for two years only. He is looking for about 15 mil a year and 4 plus year deal imo. You have to let him go if that's the case.
Anyway you look at it they have many tough decisions to make. Who to keep who to trade. They need to hit it right on most of these decisions. They won't get them all right. None of us would if we were in that position. But they have to get more right than they do wrong in order for this team to compete in next 2-3 years.
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Post by FoulBalz on Jun 20, 2017 16:30:14 GMT -5
Cozart is having a good year so far
But he is a career .250 hitter with a .300 OBP
Peraza is more than an adequate replacement with more speed higher ceiling , younger and cheaper
The Reds also keep picking up or drafting SS so another Cozart/Peraza is not that far behind
Cozart will be traded and we will bitch about the return
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Post by claycc on Jun 20, 2017 20:47:22 GMT -5
Wow... Garrett sucks dick. Can we trade him for a bucket of balls? Arroyo is a better option on the mound right now.
This is exactly what I was talking about recently with Garrett. Does him no good to get pissed about being sent down to avoid the Super 2 status... when he doesn't even belong up here at all, based on his performance. Young man, you want the big pay checks? Fucking earn them! A 7+ ERA is nowhere close.
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Post by Rodneck on Jun 21, 2017 7:41:45 GMT -5
Wow... Garrett sucks dick. Can we trade him for a bucket of balls? Arroyo is a better option on the mound right now. This is exactly what I was talking about recently with Garrett. Does him no good to get pissed about being sent down to avoid the Super 2 status... when he doesn't even belong up here at all, based on his performance. Young man, you want the big pay checks? Fucking earn them! A 7+ ERA is nowhere close. This is what is annoying me Clay. I remember people looking at Cueto with a slight disdain his first 2 years because he wasn't "Great". At least his ERA was under 5.00. Look at our Prospects/Suspects. Reed-7.15 ERA(11 starts) Stephenson-6.86 ERA(8 starts) Garrett-7.41 ERA(12 starts) Lamb-6.43 ERA(14 starts) Moscot-8.02 ERA(5 starts) Davis-7.58 ERA( 5 starts) Wojo-6.75 ERA(4 starts) Bonilla-6.91 ERA(4 starts) It's funny the best 2 starters to emerge from the young pool everybody hates Adleman and half the fans think Finnegan should be in the bullpen. Laughable! Adleman has been great his last 5 starts. Finnegan-3.76 ERA(38 starts) Adleman-4.11 ERA(24 starts)  |
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Post by socalredsfan on Jun 22, 2017 15:31:21 GMT -5
Garrett is young "baseball-wise". I think the organization really messed with his head, and then he tried to fight through an injury, without telling anyone. Now he's back, and frankly, he's in a rut and doesn't quite know how to get out of it, and that happens to young guys, especially those with little experience. I tend to agree with much of the frustration with these young pitching prospects, but I think it's a mistake to assume that Garrett is just garbage. Garrett will be a very solid starter, at least a #2 or #3.
Reed and Stephenson, well, who really knows. These guys are pitching great in AAA right now, but even so, they are still walking a ton of guys. I tend to think they both might be busts, but it's tough to say. The other guys on your list Rod, I tend to think they are worthless, Finnegan and Adleman aside.
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Post by redsfan4life on Jun 22, 2017 17:41:44 GMT -5
Garrett is young "baseball-wise". I think the organization really messed with his head, and then he tried to fight through an injury, without telling anyone. Now he's back, and frankly, he's in a rut and doesn't quite know how to get out of it, and that happens to young guys, especially those with little experience. I tend to agree with much of the frustration with these young pitching prospects, but I think it's a mistake to assume that Garrett is just garbage. Garrett will be a very solid starter, at least a #2 or #3. Reed and Stephenson, well, who really knows. These guys are pitching great in AAA right now, but even so, they are still walking a ton of guys. I tend to think they both might be busts, but it's tough to say. The other guys on your list Rod, I tend to think they are worthless, Finnegan and Adleman aside. Chris, I am with you on Garret they messed him up. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year. But they didn't treat it as such from the start. They Signed Feldman after Straily was traded. I was fine with both of those moves. Bailey and Disco started the season on the D.L. So there was a opening for Feldman. But Finnegan was healthy at start of season. So Feldman and Finnegan was top two guys in rotation. That left 3 spots to fill. How did they fill them? Rookie Davis and Garrett. Again I was OK with that. But giving Arroyo the last spot was insane in a SO CALLED REBUILD YEAR. They had Stephenson,Romano and Reed to choose from for the final spot. They should have gone with the guy who pitched best in spring from that trio. Sent the other two down to AAA to start. Nope they send Reed and Stephenson to the pen. Neither had pitched out of the pen. Both had always been starters. So they jerk them around. Neither is known to have good control. They go to pen as co-mop up guys. So they go sometimes 10 days in between outings. Insane. No wonder both had so many problems with control when there was that many days in between outings. That makes is difucult for a pitcher with good control to be sharp much less young guys like Reed and Stephenson who struggle with command. Then Finnegan goes to D.L. and instead of looking at one of the kids they go with Adelman. I am not knocking Adelman. He has been better than expected. But Adelman has no upside and will not be here on the next Reds contending team. If by some chance he is it will be as a long man not a starter. Reed,Stephenson or Romano two of the three should have rounded out the rotation after Finnegan went down. If after say 10 starts they wasn't getting the job done then you turn to a Adelman or a Bonilla type until you feel guys like Mahle and Castillo were deemed ready. They messed with Reed last year when he was called up and was hammered start after start. They may has ruined his confidence for good. They keep kids up to get hammered when they should be sent down and when they should give kids a shot they turn to Arroyo instead. It's maddening. Billy Hamilton or Peraza should never ever bat leadoff. Winker should be kept up here and be leadoff hitter Friday. I make Billy late inn. Def. Replacment/Pinch runner and give him 3 starts a week. Once for Winker once for Duvall and once for Schebler. But he would never leadoff bat him 8th or 9th. I think it would help him to not play everday. His body is frail and the extra rest would help him stay fresh. Why they comtinue to bat the worst hitter leadoff and give him more at bats than anyone else on the team is maddening to me. |
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Post by Rodneck on Jun 22, 2017 18:07:17 GMT -5
I completely and totally disagree about the rotation. The idea that this is a rebuilding year=go with the kids, makes sense on the surface. But going with the kids as they continue to get blown apart with 6.00, 7.00, 8.00 ERA's is just stupid. If they can't manage 2 innings, they don't deserve starts. Period. I don't see what management is doing is wrong at all. This is top 10 of the worst rotations in Reds history since they started keeping records in 1882. 6 weeks ago I felt like a little more aggression was warranted. Now everything they have done makes sense. This sorry ass rotation is draining the life out of this club. Hopefully that starts to turn around beginning Friday night.
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Post by claycc on Jun 22, 2017 20:04:52 GMT -5
I completely and totally disagree about the rotation. The idea that this is a rebuilding year=go with the kids, makes sense on the surface. But going with the kids as they continue to get blown apart with 6.00, 7.00, 8.00 ERA's is just stupid. If they can't manage 2 innings, they don't deserve starts. Period. I don't see what management is doing is wrong at all. This is top 10 of the worst rotations in Reds history since they started keeping records in 1882. 6 weeks ago I felt like a little more aggression was warranted. Now everything they have done makes sense. This sorry ass rotation is draining the life out of this club. Hopefully that starts to turn around beginning Friday night. Absolutely! They've been giving the kids an opportunity. The kids are not up to the task. They need 6, 7, 8 inning outings out of the rotation in a bad way or the bullpen will be completely worthless as well. And we can't put it on Bailey to come back and be the innings eater that the pitching staff desperately needs. Its time to step up and at least be respectable. Gotta quit wearing those shitty diapers at some point. |
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Post by Rodneck on Jun 22, 2017 20:39:27 GMT -5
I completely and totally disagree about the rotation. The idea that this is a rebuilding year=go with the kids, makes sense on the surface. But going with the kids as they continue to get blown apart with 6.00, 7.00, 8.00 ERA's is just stupid. If they can't manage 2 innings, they don't deserve starts. Period. I don't see what management is doing is wrong at all. This is top 10 of the worst rotations in Reds history since they started keeping records in 1882. 6 weeks ago I felt like a little more aggression was warranted. Now everything they have done makes sense. This sorry ass rotation is draining the life out of this club. Hopefully that starts to turn around beginning Friday night. Absolutely! They've been giving the kids an opportunity. The kids are not up to the task. They need 6, 7, 8 inning outings out of the rotation in a bad way or the bullpen will be completely worthless as well. And we can't put it on Bailey to come back and be the innings eater that the pitching staff desperately needs. Its time to step up and at least be respectable. Gotta quit wearing those shitty diapers at some point. Being a fresh grandpa I am really relating to the shitty diaper comment. We don't need a rotation that is shitting their pants! Perfect analogy!  |
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Post by Rodneck on Jun 22, 2017 20:42:05 GMT -5
Garrett is young "baseball-wise". I think the organization really messed with his head, and then he tried to fight through an injury, without telling anyone. Now he's back, and frankly, he's in a rut and doesn't quite know how to get out of it, and that happens to young guys, especially those with little experience. I tend to agree with much of the frustration with these young pitching prospects, but I think it's a mistake to assume that Garrett is just garbage. Garrett will be a very solid starter, at least a #2 or #3. Reed and Stephenson, well, who really knows. These guys are pitching great in AAA right now, but even so, they are still walking a ton of guys. I tend to think they both might be busts, but it's tough to say. The other guys on your list Rod, I tend to think they are worthless, Finnegan and Adleman aside. Chris I am not sold on Garrett. I admit the spring optimism helped me buy into the adjectives but I was never really impressed with even his minor league numbers. Guys without excellent splits have a hard time in the majors. You've been spot on with guys enough over the years that I am in wait and see mode. |
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