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Post by 77bengal on Oct 30, 2016 12:33:38 GMT -5
If 'windows of opportunity' truly exist in the NFL, a case could be made that the Bengals 'window' is closing. Or is it being slammed shut? Either way, the Bengals are not the same team they were over the last few years. OC Ken Zampese has struggled mightily after being pushed into a position that he didn't really want nor was he prepared for. DC Paul Guenther; well, lets just say that he isn't Mike Zimmer who has his Vikings playing at a Superbowl level. You remember Mike Zimmer don't you? The defensive guru that was allowed to walk so Mike Brown could retain his 'yes man' as the teams head coach? Yeah, that Mike Zimmer. Also, Andy Dalton turned 29 today and AJ Green along with Geno Atkins aren't far behind at 28.
And don't get me started on the subject of 'loyalty'. It goes without saying that loyalty is a good trait in a person, but when taken too far, it can become a detriment as it has in Cincy. Take Domata Peko for example. Here's a player that should've been replaced years ago, but the Bengals refuse to replace him which begs the question; how loyal is it to Geno Atkins, the defense, the team, and the fans to put one players interests above everyone else? And don't think this is the first time its happened. Names such as John Thornton, Robert Geathers and Rey Maualuga all come to mind. Besides Peko and Maualuga, how long will it take the Bengals to replace current players Michael Johnson, Russell Bodine and Mike Nugent? One year? Two years? Or do these guys get a free pass for the next several years? My money is on the latter. And getting back to Bodine, the Bengals had a golden opportunity to upgrade the center position (and the entire line/offense) when Alex Mack made up his mind that he wasn't returning to Cleveland. Here was a chance to solidfy a position that has been in chaos for years, but the Bengals never even made a murmur in showing interest. What a wasted opportunity.
So there you have it. A blueprint for what's wrong with this team. An owner who is notorious for making bone-headed decisions such as retaining Marvin Lewis as head coach instead of promoting Mike Zimmer to said position. (Retaining Lewis instead of Zimmer could go down as the second worst head coaching decision in Bengals history following only the decision to hire Tiger Johnson over Bill Walsh back in the '70s). As a head coach, Lewis is far too passive, shows no disciplinary traits, garners no respect from his team, ill prepares the team during practices, plays favorites, and has done a terrible job at drafting as of late. Yeah, I know, Lewis gets a lot of praise for drafting well, but when you take a closer look, it's not all that impressive. Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Jake Fisher and Cedric Ogbuehi could all be considered busts at this time and don't forget about the decision to draft Kevin Zeitler over all-pro David DeCastro.
Please vent your concerns gang. I've had enough 'stupid football' to last me a lifetime. Feel free to pile on and don't leave Mike Brown out of your post. He's still a bad owner.
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Post by lostwou on Oct 31, 2016 5:51:51 GMT -5
I think they get lucky drafting. We have good players here and there the problem is no one to compliment them. Also, they have certain positions they seem to covet. They have neglected the DL, only drafting in mid rounds at best. Same with the center position and the safety position. Reggie Nelsons absence is showing big time.
I will say they have had some bad luck with injuries. Billings and Jackson III. don't understand still the drafting of Jake Fisher. Obviously he was a boom or bust risk and they knew it when they drafted him. I wouldn't give up on Ced yet.
We can't sack a QB because of the neglected DL. They have drafted CBs hoping to get coverage sacks. Problem is no good safeties to cover. I think the problems we see on defense isn't coaching is lack of player talent. On the other side, they have the talent but lack coaching. I will disagree about Kirkpatrick. I thinks hes very good but theres no I in team. You have Adam Jones on other side who lets face it is aging. Dennard has been injured a lot as well so we don't really know if he will be good yet or not. Kirkpatrick is the best we have back there but he is really all alone. And our safeties play like crap! I said last year the need to keep Nelson now they are paying for that move.
All that said, I don't think we have missed the window. We aren't in a rebuild stage by any means. Even the best teams miss the playoffs or have an off year. Then come back strong the next. I think that's where we are. But changes do have to be made. This team is just not playing together for some reason. I do agree Peko needs to go but I think he is only here because of the injury to Billings. I have noticed the D backfield is out of position a lot. They haven't been staying in their lanes. That's where we miss Nelson.
Unless lightening strikes and they get it together this year is done. But I wouldn't panic and go as far as to say we are in rebuild. Look at the Panthers right now.
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Post by 77bengal on Oct 31, 2016 16:13:51 GMT -5
I agree that the team isn't in rebuild mode; yet, but they will be in a couple of years if things don't change soon. What I do see is a window that is slowly closing due to a poor drafting strategy. Like I've stated time and again, Lewis will not draft a prospect high in the draft at a position that is occupied by a player that he likes personally. Domata Peko is example number one. For years we've speculated about how good the Bengal D could become if they were to pair Geno Atkins with a talented rookie DT. And here we are, years later, still wondering, about a duo of Atkins and Aaron Donald; Atkins and Malcolm Brown, or any of the other highly talented DT's that have come out in the last several years.
The Bengals have had some bad luck with injuries. But when a team experiences more injuries than almost every other team in the league, year after year, something else has to be afoot. The Bengals have drafted a lot of players recently that were injury prone. For instance, it was widely known prior to the draft that Andrew Billings had bad knees. Quite a few injuries have occurred during team practices which raises a lot of questions. Is the team practicing on a wet (dew) field? Are the players being instructed thoroughly on how to prevent injuries? Going out of bounds, staying light on their feet, sliding, etc., are all aspects of keeping players healthy. I realize that I'm merely speculating, but like I alluded to earlier, it's hard to believe that all of these injuries can be attributed to bad luck.
Getting back to the draft, here's some more players that haven't panned out since since being drafted in the third round or higher since 2010. And they say Lewis is a good evaluator of football talent. The facts say something else. CB Brandon Ghee, LB Dontay Moch, DT Devon Still, DT Brandon Thompson, DE Margus Hunt, S Shawn Williams, LB Paul Dawson. That's not a draft history to be proud of.
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Post by Rodneck on Oct 31, 2016 18:52:31 GMT -5
We need a season like this to get Lewis the hell out of here and move on. If it's more of the same BS hiring from within this could go down the tubes for a while. To be continued...
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Post by lostwou on Nov 1, 2016 5:16:25 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that its really easy to point fingers every where and go negative when your team isn't doing well. I agree with a lot of things you said 77 but disagree to an extent. I recall when they drafted Billings you praised the pick. No one could understand why he slid so far other than the knock on him was he didn't have a pass rush but a great run stuffer. I recall you disputing that saying he could pass rush and you loved the pick as we all did.Lets not knock the pick before he even hits the field. He could end up being a steal. Now I am not trying to call you out in anyway just trying to make a point. Although, I agree we should have taken care of that position long ago as well as Center. Now we are stuck with Jethro Bodine.
I still think we have a good drafting system going. You're not going to hit a home run with every pick. I for one still remember how terrible we were drafting before Lewis. KiJana Carter? We all know what happened there. Akili Smith. David Klingler. I never agreed with the Keith Rivers pick and I was livid when they chose him. He was average at best and they reached for need. But they stopped doing that. Their drafting system itself works but they make some questionable picks.
We have had a lot of coaching changes which I think is where the problem lies. As for firing Lewis, I don't like him either but what do you think would happen if they did? Would they go out and get a great coach? I doubt it. Probably someone worse. So careful what you wish for. They would fill it from within most likely. Guenther possibly? Even worse Zampeze.
When ever you have this many coaching changes your going to have some growing pains. Sam Wyche was horrible his first few years and everyone wanted him ran out of town. Last year of his contract we go to SB. SO lets wait and see what happens. AFterall what else can we do. I think ML stinks! But we are talking about MB making his replacement choice. Its a no win there. Then again, maybe he will make a good choice in his old age. But lets not get frustrated and lose perspective. Because your team is playing poorly first time in 6 years doesn't mean everything is wrong. One or two things could be the cause. Lets just hope they get this fixed.
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Post by Rodneck on Nov 1, 2016 19:21:32 GMT -5
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Post by lostwou on Nov 2, 2016 4:54:05 GMT -5
Like I said. We are lacking talented players on defense. Players in the backfield out of position and missing tackles. No pass rush. As far as offense goes we are good every where but the OL. One exception LaFell has not been playing well. That's why I am never for picking up WR FAs. But I don't know that we have the players to upgrade. We have a few but they are injured.
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Post by 77bengal on Nov 2, 2016 13:42:07 GMT -5
All of the problems that we've pointed out all lead to the man at the top; Mike Brown. Brown is still the teams owner and general manager, and as we all know, he's not good at either. I know that Duke Tobin makes a lot of the decisions, but how much influence does he truly wield?
The Bengals run a 4-3 defense which indicates that they should be drafting d-linemen on a consistent basis. It's the most basic concept of running a 4-3. But the Bengals don't. The continually rely on older veterans that are long past their prime hoping that the youth fairy will show up and bestow some youth upon them.
Even though this thread and a lot of my posts have been critical of the Bengals, they still have a chance to get this ship righted and turn this team into a legitimate Superbowl contender. And where does it start? Up front on defense. Adding a pass rusher such as Myles Garrett, Jonathan Allen, Derek Barnett, Duewane Smoot, Charles Harris, etc., to replace Michael Johnson would be a good start. I also included Garrett and Allen on purpose to drive home the thought of trading up in the upcoming draft to snag a big-time talent.
Keep in mind that the Bengals could have as many as 14 draft picks in the 2017 NFL Draft AND this will be the first year a team can trade compensatory picks which wasn't allowed in the past. Adding five quality players in the upcoming draft by trading up and drafting high, makes a thousand times more sense than sitting pat and adding an unknown wide receiver in round six or an unknown linebacker in round seven. This draft has the potential to set the Bengals up for years to come if they play their cards right. Actually, this draft has the potential to get this team turned around immediately and back into the playoffs.
Names to consier: C Even Pocic; WR John Ross; DE's that were previously mentioned; and DT Malik McDowell. There's also a lot of quality LB's, S's in this draft a lot of them are current Buckeyes. OT also should be on the list.
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Post by Rodneck on Nov 3, 2016 17:15:46 GMT -5
It's a pretty fucked up time to be a Cincinnati sports fan right now. The World Series ended last night and we are about a month away from Redsfest. Never would have predicted in June Redsfest would be the absolute fun place I want to be at in December. It is!
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Post by 77bengal on Nov 4, 2016 10:57:43 GMT -5
The Bengals staff never sees the forest for all the trees. Mike Brown has this crazy idea that if he stays loyal to bad players, they will magically transform into an ageless pro-bowler. Simply put, no single player is more important than the team.
Every off-season should be used to improve any position regardless of the current starter is or if some previous picks haven't panned out. Take OT for example. The Bengals drafted two of them, back-to-back, in rounds one and two during the 2015 draft. But if one or both of them turn out to be busts, the Bengals shouldn't hesitate in drafting another OT immediately in round one. I'm not saying that Jake Fisher and Cedric Ogbuehi are busts, but there's no denying that they're off to rocky starts.
The Bengals should also do a better job in playing to the strengths of each draft to ensure they're bringing in the best of the best. Take the upcoming draft for example. This draft is loaded with good pass rushers, S's and WR's; positions that the Bengals need to upgrade immediately. This isn't a strong draft at the center or guard positions so the Bengals should look to free agency to improve these two positions. However, if Zeitler signs an extension, then center becomes the only position that screams for an upgrade but offensive tackle has to remain on the table as a possibility. This is also a weak draft at the defensive tackle position, so the Bengals would probably be wise to go with Hardison and Billings next year as opposed to bringing in a player that's not really that much better than what we already have. DE, S, WR, C and OT seem to be the positions in most need of an upgrade at this time.
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Post by 77bengal on Nov 4, 2016 12:08:00 GMT -5
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Post by Rodneck on Nov 4, 2016 13:26:58 GMT -5
All I know is the tinge of excitement I get when ready to sit down and watch some football is gone immediately! This is not a fun team to watch right now. 77 I can't go down those crazy roads anymore thinking about ownership and coaching and decision making. Have to value your sanity a little more!
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Post by 77bengal on Nov 5, 2016 10:37:46 GMT -5
By ignoring certain positions/players during the last few drafts, the Bengals set themselves back by about two years. There are roughly five positions that need an upgrade and it will probably take two drafts and a couple of years of smart free agent signings to get back to where they should be per talent level. The owner and the coaches have taken loyalty to another level. A level that has destroyed their chances this year and maybe next as far as going deep into the playoffs.
However, there will be some free agents out there in 2017 that the Bengals should really consider such as C Brian Schwenke of the Titans. There's also talk that the Dolphins have had enough of Ryan Tannehill, which causes me to wonder if the Dolphins would be interested in trading C Mike Pouncey to the Bengals for QB A.J. McCarron. Pouncey does have a history of injury, but if he comes back strong and checks out medically, it's a trade the Bengals should consider.
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