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Post by 77bengal on Jan 22, 2016 20:06:50 GMT -5
The 2016 NFL Draft is loaded with quality safeties. I can't recall a draft containing so many safeties with game changing ability. And when a draft is loaded with so many quality players at a certain position, it's usually wise to draft one... maybe two.
Both Reggie Nelson and George Iloka are nearing free agency and it would be a smart move to be proactive and address this situation now. So what should the Bengals do? It's quite simple; Reggie Nelson should be re-signed and George Iloka should be traded for a second round draft pick. I know, I know; why sign an older veteran instead of a younger player who's just entering his prime? Here's why. One, Nelson possesses big play ability and he would make an excellent mentor to the teams younger safeties and although Iloka is a solid safety, he doesn't possess big play ability which the Bengals defense sorely needs. Second, Iloka is going to demand a lot of money. Maybe more money than the Bengals are willing to spend, so instead of allowing him to walk and getting nothing in return, trade him now for a much needed draft pick.
Here's my list of the best safeties that this draft has to offer and the Bengals should take advantage. I've listed them in order of talent starting with the most talented and so forth. I've listed my favorite player in this years draft who just happens to be a safety. And lastly, this order will more than likely change because of the Senior Bowl and the combine.
1) Karl Joseph, West Virginia: My favorite player in this years draft is Karl Joseph. Joseph may be the hardest hitting player that I have ever seen in the college ranks. If there was ever a player born to play in the black-n-blue AFC North, it's Joseph. Joseph gets low before exploding into ball carriers dislodging the football after many hits. Joseph also had five interceptions this past year in only four games before hurting his knee. If he runs well at the combine and checks out medically, you can forget those late second and early third round grades. Joseph will go in round one or early second round. His coverage ability is top notch.
2) Su'a Cravens, USC: (Wild Card) Su'a Cravens is not only a force in the defensive backfield, he's a huge force at the line of scrimmage as a run stopper and pass rusher. This guy would be a huge addition to the Bengals D. Has the look of a true game changer and multiple pro-bowler. My only concern is that he's also viewed as an OLB. Do some question his speed or is he not the best in coverage? He looks good concerning both to me.
3) Darian Thompson, Boise State: Makes big plays in all phases of playing the safety position whether it be intercepting passes (7), dropping running backs in the backfield (5), or passes defensed (8). Mean disposition and underrated abilities as a result of playing at Boise State. Has the look of being a draft day steal.
4) Vonn Bell, Ohio State: A supreme athlete, Vonn Bell does it all and he does it with speed. Bell makes big plays in the backfield and in pass coverage. Bell was instrumental in the Buckeyes National Championship run of 2014.
5) Jeremy Cash, Duke: Was a force for the Buckeyes before transferring to Duke so there's no questioning Jeremy Cash's ability. Great run stopper who works his way through blocks to make the tackle. Unfortunately, Cash played almost exclusively at the line of scrimmage for Duke so his coverage skills are in question. However, if he plays the pass as well as he does the run, he could be the best safety in this draft class.
6) Miles Killebrew, Southern Utah: I have to be honest, I didn't expect much when I watched Miles Killebrew play but he really impressed me. Killebrew is fast and makes plays all over the field. Killebrew also has a nose for the end zone which is never a bad trait. Huge size in the mold of our own George Iloka.
All of the safeties I have listed above have the ability to turn into multiple pro-bowlers and become big contributors to any defense. But making it in the NFL isn't just about talent, it's also about all those pesky variables such as injury, drugs, car accidents, pregnant girlfriends, money/greed, etc., etc. If these guys can avoid all the pitfalls of becoming famous and rich, they should have good to great careers.
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Post by lostwou on Jan 23, 2016 7:03:03 GMT -5
Hey 77 glad you found us. Glad we all found each other. First off, we have to wait and see who they sign and who they let go. I certainly don't see them taking a safety in rd 1. Unless he is the next Troy Palamalo. I think it would serve them best to keep as much as the D together as possible. No way you get 2nd rd pick for Iloka. You can't even trade him. He will be a FA. Any team can sign him without giving up a pick.
I have seen different mocks. Some have them taking LB. What about PJ Dawson? Most of our receivers are FAs. Wonder where Alford is as far as coming along. A lot of mocks have us taking a receiver. We need an inside pass rusher. Especially if we lose Adam Jones. Say what you want but he is the best CB we have. Can you afford to let him go and take a chance drafting another? No way will a Rookie replace him not in there 1st year anyway. We don't have much of a pass rush so they better keep there good cover guys.
FA list
Sanu
Gregg Little
Marvin Jones
Andre Smith
Whitworth
Robert Geathers
Wallace Gilberry
Brandon Thompson
Vincent Rey
LB Chris Carter
Leon Hall
Adam Jones
Reggie Nelson
Iloka
Who do you let go and who do you keep? Thompson most likely will go, along with Geathers, Andre Smith. Who else? What about whitworth? IMO hes done as LT. Do you resign him to backup or move to OG? How much would he cost? Leon Hall. How much would he cost? Do you resign him and move him to Safety? A lot of questions will be answered by March. But I agree 77 we do need another safety at some point in the draft. I think Shawn Williams is capable of starting. I thought he played really well when he filled in.
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Post by lostwou on Jan 23, 2016 7:50:19 GMT -5
Actually wouldn't surprise me if they let whitworth and A Smith both go. We all know how much they love those comp picks. With drafting 2 OTs they could let both walk.
Was going over draft prospects. As far as DTs go, theres 2 or 3 top ranked with off field issues. They may not take a DT rd 1 because of this. I don't see any stand out LBs that would be there when we pick. that being said, depending on whether or not they feel Fisher can take over at RT. I think the positions they would be looking at inn rd 1 would be DE, CB, WR, OT. Bodine needs replaced but not any high picks this year. Our OL needs serious help. They can't run block or pass block. Dalton had to get rid of the ball quickly. That's the only reason he didn't get a lot of sacks. So like I said depending how the feel about Fisher OT could be a possibility. Never know till after FA.
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Post by 77bengal on Jan 23, 2016 15:20:08 GMT -5
Lost, you can blame Chocowinity for my return. (Thanks Choco. You've always been a loyal friend of mine on this board and off.) He contacted me and gave me the address. Nice to be back and see that you and some of the old regulars are here.
Virus really let us down. First he attacks all of us with a crazed (seemingly schizophrenic), name calling rant and then selfishly pulls the plug on the entire board in an attempt to punish us just because I gave him a dose of his own medicine. In that post I even extended my hand to him by telling him that if he were to be respectful and/or act like an adult, all would be forgiven but to no avail.
Anyway, I agree with a lot of your post. In the first three or four rounds, I want the Bengals to draft players that have big play ability and can contribute from the get-go. The reason I would like to see a safety drafted is because both Reggie Nelson and George Iloka are free agents; Iloka is going to demand a lot of money and he isn't a big play maker; Shawn Williams and Derron Smith are unproven (although Williams did look good in spot duty this past season as you stated); and at least two rookie safeties listed above could elevate the entire Bengal D to new heights as Ed Reed did in Baltimore. Also, the Bengals can trade Iloka's rights to another team before free agency begins and I do think a second round pick is possible considering his talent and age.
Andrew Whitworth has already been signed to a one year extension which was a smart move. Greg Little, Robert Geathers and Chris Carter are no longer with the team and Andre Smith will probably walk. That leaves Sanu and Jones as the teams offensive free agent priorities. I would like to see the Bengals sign Jones even if they have to pay a tad more than he's worth because the team really needs his experience and production. Signing Sanu isn't as important. I like Sanu and appreciate what he's done for the team, but he's slow and disappears for long periods of time. Adding at least two speedsters to the receiving corp is a must and there are several the Bengals will have a shot at adding in round two and later on. They are WRs Josh Doctson, TCU; Jalin Marshall, Ohio State; Sterling Shepard, Oklahoma; Rashard Higgens, Colrado State; Braxton Miller, Ohio State; Kolby Listenbee, TCU; etc. Currently the Bengals only have two WRs that can stretch the field in AJ Green and Mario Alford. By adding two more speedy WRs, the Bengals would double their speed at this position which would go a long way in opening things up underneath for Eifert, Kroft, Bernard and Burkhead.
Defensively there are a lot of players at every level of the defense that need to be signed but I wouldn't break the bank signing any of them. Iloka, Nelson and Jones are priority and all need to be signed. Thompson, Rey and Hall should only be brought back if a cap friendly deal can be reached. Gilberry has been a good player through the years, but he's getting older and his production has really slipped the last couple of years. The team would be better off by moving forward with Marcus Hardison, Will Clarke and DeShawn Williams. Drafting DT Andrew Billings in round one should also be considered if he does fall to them. Billings rushes the passer much like Atkins but he's also strong enough to clog up the run.
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Post by Rodneck on Jan 23, 2016 15:55:37 GMT -5
77 if that's the strength of the draft we definitely need to get in on it because we can get in later and still get top 2 round talent.
My big concern after we get past coaching is the other big ass letdown this season and that is the offensive line. They were fucking weak down the stretch in every aspect. They've always gotten respect because they were big but IMO they were always a mediocre bunch and really since Braham left the O-line has been exactly these 2 things:big and mediocre. That is where the focus should go whether through draft or FA. And I agree with you about the WR position, draft or FA. We need that 1 more guy that can be an all day,stretch the field,sure handed target that will put defenses on tilt and make us the true nightmare team. But it all starts up front.
I would resign Nelson,Rey,and Thompson(especially on 3rd and short) of which only Nelson might cost some coin. I would extend a team friendly contract to Illoka and take might chances elsewhere if he doesn't take it.
Beyond this I think the draft is best player available. I haven't looked at the FA list yet. Baby steps for me!
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Post by Rodneck on Jan 23, 2016 16:03:24 GMT -5
I'm glad to see both of you also. We've been yacking for a decade and it plain isn't right to be shut down and out like this and lose touch with people. That's not going to happen here and eventually I'm going to buy this board or one from vbulletin so it never happens again. I've been around more than a few boards and the big ones suck because there are too many people on there to where you have 40-60 page threads. Our little group is perfect. Were social,intelligent,and with enough psycho to keep it real!
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Post by 77bengal on Jan 23, 2016 20:25:07 GMT -5
77 if that's the strength of the draft we definitely need to get in on it because we can get in later and still get top 2 round talent. My big concern after we get past coaching is the other big ass letdown this season and that is the offensive line. They were fucking weak down the stretch in every aspect. They've always gotten respect because they were big but IMO they were always a mediocre bunch and really since Braham left the O-line has been exactly these 2 things:big and mediocre. That is where the focus should go whether through draft or FA. And I agree with you about the WR position, draft or FA. We need that 1 more guy that can be an all day,stretch the field,sure handed target that will put defenses on tilt and make us the true nightmare team. But it all starts up front. I would resign Nelson,Rey,and Thompson(especially on 3rd and short) of which only Nelson might cost some coin. I would extend a team friendly contract to Illoka and take might chances elsewhere if he doesn't take it. Beyond this I think the draft is best player available. I haven't looked at the FA list yet. Baby steps for me! I agree that the Bengal o-line is overrated. Bodine is the weak link up front and the Bengals could mend this problem by drafting C Max Tuerk out of USC. The problem is that Tuerk isn't worth a first round selection and there's a chance he'll be off the board by the time they pick in round two, so trading down would be wise if they decide to go after him. |
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Post by lostwou on Jan 24, 2016 9:06:10 GMT -5
Lost, you can blame Chocowinity for my return. (Thanks Choco. You've always been a loyal friend of mine on this board and off.) He contacted me and gave me the address. Nice to be back and see that you and some of the old regulars are here. Virus really let us down. First he attacks all of us with a crazed (seemingly schizophrenic), name calling rant and then selfishly pulls the plug on the entire board in an attempt to punish us just because I gave him a dose of his own medicine. In that post I even extended my hand to him by telling him that if he were to be respectful and/or act like an adult, all would be forgiven but to no avail. Anyway, I agree with a lot of your post. In the first three or four rounds, I want the Bengals to draft players that have big play ability and can contribute from the get-go. The reason I would like to see a safety drafted is because both Reggie Nelson and George Iloka are free agents; Iloka is going to demand a lot of money and he isn't a big play maker; Shawn Williams and Derron Smith are unproven (although Williams did look good in spot duty this past season as you stated); and at least two rookie safeties listed above could elevate the entire Bengal D to new heights as Ed Reed did in Baltimore. Also, the Bengals can trade Iloka's rights to another team before free agency begins and I do think a second round pick is possible considering his talent and age. Andrew Whitworth has already been signed to a one year extension which was a smart move. Greg Little, Robert Geathers and Chris Carter are no longer with the team and Andre Smith will probably walk. That leaves Sanu and Jones as the teams offensive free agent priorities. I would like to see the Bengals sign Jones even if they have to pay a tad more than he's worth because the team really needs his experience and production. Signing Sanu isn't as important. I like Sanu and appreciate what he's done for the team, but he's slow and disappears for long periods of time. Adding at least two speedsters to the receiving corp is a must and there are several the Bengals will have a shot at adding in round two and later on. They are WRs Josh Doctson, TCU; Jalin Marshall, Ohio State; Sterling Shepard, Oklahoma; Rashard Higgens, Colrado State; Braxton Miller, Ohio State; Kolby Listenbee, TCU; etc. Currently the Bengals only have two WRs that can stretch the field in AJ Green and Mario Alford. By adding two more speedy WRs, the Bengals would double their speed at this position which would go a long way in opening things up underneath for Eifert, Kroft, Bernard and Burkhead. Defensively there are a lot of players at every level of the defense that need to be signed but I wouldn't break the bank signing any of them. Iloka, Nelson and Jones are priority and all need to be signed. Thompson, Rey and Hall should only be brought back if a cap friendly deal can be reached. Gilberry has been a good player through the years, but he's getting older and his production has really slipped the last couple of years. The team would be better off by moving forward with Marcus Hardison, Will Clarke and DeShawn Williams. Drafting DT Andrew Billings in round one should also be considered if he does fall to them. Billings rushes the passer much like Atkins but he's also strong enough to clog up the run. |
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Post by lostwou on Jan 24, 2016 9:19:33 GMT -5
You left out a WR I like really well. Pharoa Cooper. He would also be a big threat in the slot. Also I like Coleman really well. Theres a lot of receivers who would work for us. They should let receivers go except for maybe Jones. Doctson good choice too. They should try to keep Adam Jones, Nelson. If they don't they will use the 1st pick on a CB. And imo they need to use it on DL. WR pick would be ok if they have a target for a DE or DT in RD 2. But its obvious they need to draft a receiver by rd 2. Who knows nothing will be clear till after FA.
My thinking was Maybe Boling could play Center get rid of Bodine. Slide Whitworth inside. That would be an upgrade on the OL itself. Then focus on WR and defense. I can't see drafting a Center before the 3rd. No one really stands out. Unless they get one in FA. That's a possibility. Its also a possibility they stick with Bodine. That would be worse case scenario but I wouldn't doubt it.
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Post by 77bengal on Jan 24, 2016 10:39:49 GMT -5
Bodine did improve this past year which is a good sign. Maybe he continues to improve and drafting a C becomes a mute point. Lets hope so. Pharoh Cooper is another good WR and there are several more that I didn't list. Stacy Coley of Miami was one of my favorites, but he made a good decision by going back to school. If he were to come out, he would be near the top of my wish list in the mid rounds. Corey Coleman would be a great addition to this team playing opposite AJ Green.
I also think it's time for the Bengals to add a big play maker on either side of the ball through free agency such as a WR or a pass rusher. The Bengals are close and a good signing could get them over the hump. WR Travis Benjamin of Cleveland is a player the Bengals should consider. Besides, Cleveland has robbed the Bengals of G Eric Steinbach, Andrew Hawkins and now Hue Jackson and Jackson stole RBs Terrell Watson and James Wilder Jr. right from under Marvin Lewis' nose not to mention taking one of the Bengals better scouts. There's also a rumor that Jackson and the Browns may target Bengal WR Marvin Jones and possibly another player or two. The best way to end this trend would be to fight fire with fire and target one of Cleveland's better players.
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Post by Rodneck on Jan 24, 2016 14:51:39 GMT -5
Bodine did improve this past year which is a good sign. Maybe he continues to improve and drafting a C becomes a mute point. Lets hope so. Pharoh Cooper is another good WR and there are several more that I didn't list. Stacy Coley of Miami was one of my favorites, but he made a good decision by going back to school. If he were to come out, he would be near the top of my wish list in the mid rounds. Corey Coleman would be a great addition to this team playing opposite AJ Green. I also think it's time for the Bengals to add a big play maker on either side of the ball through free agency such as a WR or a pass rusher. The Bengals are close and a good signing could get them over the hump. WR Travis Benjamin of Cleveland is a player the Bengals should consider. Besides, Cleveland has robbed the Bengals of G Eric Steinbach, Andrew Hawkins and now Hue Jackson and Jackson stole RBs Terrell Watson and James Wilder Jr. right from under Marvin Lewis' nose not to mention taking one of the Bengals better scouts. There's also a rumor that Jackson and the Browns may target Bengal WR Marvin Jones and possibly another player or two. The best way to end this trend would be to fight fire with fire and target one of Cleveland's better players. This is something I definitely agree upon. Their last debacle in FA when they didn't use Kremcheck but opted for an in house shake and bake doctor who declared the FA WR acquisition healthy was their own fault. Ignoring free agency completely or at a high level just because of their last gaffe is unacceptable. It can be a scale tipper and make life easier. |
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Post by 77bengal on Jan 24, 2016 19:55:24 GMT -5
Bodine did improve this past year which is a good sign. Maybe he continues to improve and drafting a C becomes a mute point. Lets hope so. Pharoh Cooper is another good WR and there are several more that I didn't list. Stacy Coley of Miami was one of my favorites, but he made a good decision by going back to school. If he were to come out, he would be near the top of my wish list in the mid rounds. Corey Coleman would be a great addition to this team playing opposite AJ Green. I also think it's time for the Bengals to add a big play maker on either side of the ball through free agency such as a WR or a pass rusher. The Bengals are close and a good signing could get them over the hump. WR Travis Benjamin of Cleveland is a player the Bengals should consider. Besides, Cleveland has robbed the Bengals of G Eric Steinbach, Andrew Hawkins and now Hue Jackson and Jackson stole RBs Terrell Watson and James Wilder Jr. right from under Marvin Lewis' nose not to mention taking one of the Bengals better scouts. There's also a rumor that Jackson and the Browns may target Bengal WR Marvin Jones and possibly another player or two. The best way to end this trend would be to fight fire with fire and target one of Cleveland's better players. This is something I definitely agree upon. Their last debacle in FA when they didn't use Kremcheck but opted for an in house shake and bake doctor who declared the FA WR acquisition healthy was their own fault. Ignoring free agency completely or at a high level just because of their last gaffe is unacceptable. It can be a scale tipper and make life easier. The Bengals have been snake bit when it comes to signing free agents and they have nobody to blame but themselves. A lot of the free agents the Bengals have signed were mid to low tier players and several of them had a history of being injured or were over the hill ala AJ Hawk. Another words, Mike Brown tried to build a good team 'on the cheap' but all he ended up doing was wasting his money. You get what you pay for. The Bengals are well under the salary cap, so there's lots of money to sign some of their own free agents, their draft picks and a quality free agent or two and still be well under the cap. Basically, the Bengals have no excuse when it comes to signing good players and/or free agents. Jon Kitna was a pretty good free agent signing bringing stability to the most important position on the field which the Bengals hadn't had for quite some time so it's not like it never works out. The Bengals are over $30 million under the salary cap for this coming season which ranks as the tenth best league wide. They also have a few players inked to huge contracts that will never see that money such as Leon Hall who is due $6 million. (The Bengals will more than likely re-negotiate Hall's contract as well as the contracts of other players.) The link below lists every team and how much each is under or over the salary cap. www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ |
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Post by lostwou on Jan 25, 2016 17:39:30 GMT -5
Max Teurk would be a good choice. If he does well at the combine though his stock will go up. May not make it past rd 1. But something has to be done about the OL because it was the most glaring problem. They couldn't run block or pass block. I'd be all for drafting him and still get a really good DT in the second and WR 3rd. It all comes down to who they keep. I say keep the D as much together as possible.
I wouldn't go after anyone from Cleveland that could be bad luck. Draft WRs try to get some Defense from FA. Maybe a DT/DE or LB. Bodine is horrible. He's had to have help blocking which has left lanes open for blitzes.
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Post by 77bengal on Jan 25, 2016 19:22:21 GMT -5
Max Teurk would be a good choice. If he does well at the combine though his stock will go up. May not make it past rd 1. But something has to be done about the OL because it was the most glaring problem. They couldn't run block or pass block. I'd be all for drafting him and still get a really good DT in the second and WR 3rd. It all comes down to who they keep. I say keep the D as much together as possible. I wouldn't go after anyone from Cleveland that could be bad luck. Draft WRs try to get some Defense from FA. Maybe a DT/DE or LB. Bodine is horrible. He's had to have help blocking which has left lanes open for blitzes. I was really puzzled when the Bengals drafted Bodine and then made the claim that he was the number one center on their board. I had two or three centers rated above him including C Bryan Stork who has done a good job since being drafted by the Patriots. What I disliked about Bodine prior to his drafting was his inability to pick up blitzers. It's as if he lacked peripheral vision and was only capable of seeing what was directly in front of him. |
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Post by lostwou on Jan 26, 2016 9:44:08 GMT -5
I think I posted some where the bengals are 16 mill under cap. just read with cap going up they will have 30 mill to spend. Josh Shaw played really well filling in at CB. He was a good pick. Still, They need to keep Adam Jones, Nelson and Iloka. To me those are the most important signings.
AS far as DT, we have yet to see what Hardison can do. Will Bengals go after Nick Fairly again in FA? I would think they should look at LBs as well. If they can keep our CBs and S, pick up a LB or 2, we will be in good shape going into the draft. I don't see how they can not hit FA this year. We need LBs. We need another DT, a DE. Our defensive backfield, is the only area that is really worth signing our own. After that, you need to look else where for improvement at the other positions. We don't have anyone on the roster outside of Atkins and Dunlap that can get pressure. I'm not a fan of FA WRs we haven't had luck there.
77 I like Cravens a lot. Most of the LBs in the draft are under 230lbs. More like Safeties. Cravens fits the size of a safety, but is tough and physical to play LB. Hes really good in coverage as well so he can play both positions. This is the kind of player the bengals love. He could be wearing stripes next season. The next coming of David Fulcher?
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